With Kaus, Corn, Wright, and Pinkerton, these two are the best of bhtv. More of them and less Jane Hamster please.

Quoting Swift: With Kaus, Corn, Wright, and Pinkerton, these two are the best of bhtv. More of them and less Jane Hamster please.

More Jane Hamsher, too, please. Hamsher rocks. Thanks for reminding me to mention that, Swift.

I'm new to Blogging Heads site. Great discussion about the debate. I really enjoyed the insights of these two gentlemen and am looking forward to their next post.

I thought Alterman had a decent rundown of the debate: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ebate.election

Hmm, Bit of disappointment. Not as substantive as the usual McWhorter, Loury pairing. Plus, McWhorter missed out a few points about the debate. Obama did mention that Early Childhood care would not be jeopardized with a tax freeze. Neither would social security. And Obama looked at McCain many times while McCain totally avoided that. More thoughts later.
Will wait for some of the regulars - Wonderment, BJkeefe, and Kidneystones to chime in.

Halfway in and loving the diavlog. Thanks Bob, for getting these guys to cover the debates. Just made the debates that much more enticing.

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/148...2:06&out=32:34 I thought the segment about Bill Clinton's advice was excellent. Hopefully Obama is listening. Special thanks to Mrs. Loury for helping to get Glen in line.

I think John is on to something with his analysis of Obama not wanting to appear as a bully if he stared at McCain. But he doesn't take it far enough. The fact is that Barack Obama does not have a confrontational personality. He has a wide repertoire of communicative skills that he uses well to avoid confrontation. This was clear in his debates with Hillary and the other Dems. as well as with McCain. Barack's non-confrontational nature can clearly work in his favor with a guy like McCain who is always looking for a fight. Or it can backfire if Obama is perceived as a wimp. In any case, Obama is who he is. His personality is not going to change. The rest of us need to get accustomed to his style because it will be his style of governance too.

Quoting Wonderment:
The fact is that Barack Obama does not have a confrontational personality. He has a wide repertoire of communicative skills that he uses well to avoid confrontation.

This was clear in his debates with Hillary and the other Dems. as well as with McCain.

Barack's non-confrontational nature can clearly work in his favor with a guy like McCain who is always looking for a fight. Or it can backfire if Obama is perceived as a wimp.

In any case, Obama is who he is. His personality is not going to change. The rest of us need to get accustomed to his style because it will be his style of governance too.

This message is approved by Ocean...

I disagree with John on the point that Obama should have appeared more soft spoken in the debate. He already has dems on lock he needs to go after the moderates. Hillary was always sayin how she was "fighting" for everyone. I think he was tryin to give the impression he is a 'fighter' for those middle class moderates who he needs in the GE. Those are the people who say he isn't tough enough especially vs a war hero.

Should there be more wine in BHTV?

For Glen Loury, yes...for Ann Althouse, no.

Dear My Ukranian and Georgian Friends John and Glenn, Thank you for your support. I have been off BheadsTV for a few days. But unlike my opponent, B. Hussein Obama, who has been AWOL from America, I've been busy maverickin' and reachin' across the aisle. Suzy Palin and me, we're shakin' things up, reformin', changin' the way they do business in Warshington. Here's some STRAIGHT TALK: I'm suspending my campaign and returning to Warshington tonight to shake even more stuff up. We are in a big pickle, My Friends, so I've decided to show them Wall Street predators and them ear-markin' congressmen, who's the boss. I may have 8 houses and 14 cars, but I spent 5 yrs in the Hanoi Hilton -- on Main Street, not Wall Street. I am hereby pulling all my TV ads until Nancy Pelosi meets me for a mud wrestling match to be held on the White House lawn. Forget Bush and President Cheney! Just me and Nancy. Winner gets the nuclear football and emits his or her decree for 700 billion million gazillion trillion dollars. That's the kind of change Suzy Palin and I are talkin' about! Amen!

Just say no, Barack.

Quoting John M: Dear My Ukranian and Georgian Friends John and Glenn,

Thank you for your support.

Here's some STRAIGHT TALK: I'm suspending my campaign and returning to Warshington tonight to shake even more stuff up.

Farewell, John M. You'll be missed... Be careful with the mud. It's slippery.

Hands down, consistently the best diavlog pairing on Bloggingheads.tv.

Let's agree that people of color have plenty of good reasons to be pleased each time a person of color busts through another barrier. And let's not be shy about it. There are plenty of people who stand in their way simply because of racial prejudice. Considering the long history of racism in America and elsewhere I've no objection to devoting an hour-long special or more to every new barrier shattered. The Chosen One has already made history and will likely continue to do so. The 'phenomena' is being studied and will continue to be studied for a long time. Let's also remember that white-collar thieves come in all colors and complexions. The Chosen One received more Fannie money than all US Senators but one. While it's true he 'just finished paying off his student loans' he also moved into a million dollar plus home in Chicago several years ago. These two are both totally in the tank for the Chosen One. Their diavlogs have deteriorated to the point where the 'substance' of the discussion is an analysis of gestures and stammers. Why not title

Please find someone who wants to see McCain win on....

Rara avis. An endangered species. Formerly native to the Southwest, South, Midwest and Appalachia, the last flock was reported in late September of 2008 in upscale suburbs of the Deep South, although there are unconfirmed reports of a few solitary specimens in Orange County, California.

How about "magic brownies"? On a serious note, it would be interesting to see a comprehensive drug screen on elected officials. Many jobs, even hospital privileges for Physicians demand a urine screen for drugs. In the case of Physicians and Nurses, only before starting, I am aware that in other jobs, there is regular screening for "drugs".

Quoting kidneystones: Yuk!

Shorter kidneystones:
.

Quoting TwinSwords: Shorter kidneystones:

.

Love those smilies!!!

Quoting SkepticDoc: How about "magic brownies"?

On a serious note, it would be interesting to see a comprehensive drug screen on elected officials. Many jobs, even hospital privileges for Physicians demand a urine screen for drugs. In the case of Physicians and Nurses, only before starting, I am aware that in other jobs, there is regular screening for "drugs".

Lots of us think there should be a law against that kind of thing in all but a few cases (MDs, air traffic controllers, bus drivers). Actually, I think there should be a law against it in all cases. It's perfectly possible to get drunk, stoned on antihistamines, or sleep deprived in all of those jobs as it is. If your employer needs a blood test to tell whether you're strung out on heroin, they're never going to know if you're showing up to work after a beer or two.

Glen Loury has either over analyzed the identification of African Americans with Obama or missed the point of ethnic identification entirely. See the extended clip here. For your next appearance take 10 minutes to put into context African American feelings for Obama and compare them to Irish Catholic feelings for President John Kennedy, Mormon feelings for Romney, Greek Feelings for Dukakis or even Alaskan feeling for Palin. It seems that Loury argues that African American support for Obama is a unique experience, digital in effect, that cannot not be compared with the experience Catholic support for President Kennedy or more to the point Irish Catholic support for Kennedy. Even conservative Irish Catholics must have had thier hearts swell with pride when he was elected. Similarly, Mormons of the left must have been rooting for Romney to win the Republican nomination and may have contributed to his campaign, even though they intended to vote against him in the general election.
I think that ethic identity is analog. John is right. Rooting for Obama to succeed or even Condi Rice or Colin Powell to succeed, notwithstanding a persons politics

Could it be my age, or some kind of regional preference? Because I don't at all understand the constant nagging for Obama to get more aggressive with his rhetoric. Is the rest of the country so used to bellicose populism that it hears Obama as soft? Do they really want him to smile harder and play up the smooth zinger angle, like John Edwards? The thought makes me shudder. He didn't seem sleepy to me, just patient. A good debate is a conversation, not 3rd down and 2. Not to blame John or Glenn -- I must be in the minority. But Obama's speaking style hits the bullseye for me. Most everyone else (left and right) sounds relatively unthoughtful, spastic, and ungenerous by comparison. Obviously, it's only an issue of style. But if it's the new style, I'm all for it.

Solid diavlog - although it was a little heavier on the crude punditry than most between these two gentlemen. Consider me one of the few Obama supporters who actually thought that McCain wiped the floor with our hero on Friday. Where Obama was hesitant and deferential, McCain was forceful and, at times, eloquent. (Stranger things have happened.) And, BHO's worst moment of the debate, when McCain described receiving a bracelet from the mother of a dead soldier, Obama engaged in some risible me-tooism. But most importantly, the entire debate was conducted on McCain's terms. How did a discussion of the economic crisis turn into a thirty minute stemwinder on earmarks and government spending? Earmarks have next to nothing to do with the credit crisis, yet Obama engaged McCain on the issue. That's a victory for McCain in itself. Obama also failed to answer an extremely serious charge from McCain; that Obama is simply not prepared to be the president. Now, John M: I am terribly sorry to hear about the demise of the New York Sun. It's a real shame. Hope to see your column elsewhere, someday soon!

Quoting DoctorMoney: Could it be my age, or some kind of regional preference? Because I don't at all understand the constant nagging for Obama to get more aggressive with his rhetoric. Is the rest of the country so used to bellicose populism that it hears Obama as soft? Do they really want him to smile harder and play up the smooth zinger angle, like John Edwards? The thought makes me shudder. He didn't seem sleepy to me, just patient. A good debate is a conversation, not 3rd down and 2.

Obviously, it's only an issue of style. But if it's the new style, I'm all for it.

I agree with you. I like his style. He is calm and thoughtful. He's clear and elegant in his delivery. His responses are intelligent and measured. However, I have long realized that what appeals to me in a political leader, doesn't seem to be the same that appeals to the average American. There is an imaginary model of how someone who would appeal to most people should be like. And we, rather unrealisitically, would like Obama to have all the possible qualities required to win this election. The reality is that he can only be who he

Quoting David Edenden: Glen Loury has either over analyzed the identification of African Americans with Obama or missed the point of ethnic identification entirely.

For your next appearance take 10 minutes to put into context African American feelings for Obama and compare them to Irish Catholic feelings for President John Kennedy, Mormon feelings for Romney, Greek Feelings for Dukakis or even Alaskan feeling for Palin.

I think that the trajectory from slavery, to the back of the bus, to being the President of the United States contains aspects well beyond what can be found in the other groups you mention. It isn't comparable to rooting for your home team. This is rising from the most extreme form of oppression to the top. It belongs in a different category.

Loury/McWhorter 2012? Not as substantive or as fascinating as the usual Loury/McWhorter diavlog, but perhaps that's because they're discussing a specific subject (the debate) that has already been the subject of much commentary elsewhere in the media. That said, I'm looking forward to their next discussion about the VP debate. Biden and McCain like each other well enough, don't they? The point (made by Glenn?) that it would be interesting to see two candidates who liked or at least seriously respected each other in a debate made me wonder what a McCain-Biden debate would look like. It also makes me wonder how the hell McCain and Obama would have pulled off 10 town hall meetings (had Obama agreed) without looking at each other.

Ocean: And we, rather unrealistically, would like Obama to have all the possible qualities required to win this election. The reality is that he can only be who he is. There's only so much that someone can push it. Beyond a reasonable point, it won't come out right. So let him be himself. You can't please everybody...

Yes, that is true -- we always tend to want people to be something other than what they are. The differences between all four candidate's personalities are stark and yet advice is constantly given regarding how they should each change in order to conform to some unattainable standard of normality. For those who are interested in the short history of McCain and Obama's professional relationship that may provide some clues re: the eye contact thing, check out "Rivals in Search of Trust" by David Broder, August 10 at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com