Quoting Florian: It is always interesting to hear writers talk about themselves. They seldom talk about anything else.

I was struck by how self-referential it all was. And yet, very engaging and left me wanting more. Hopefully, from other writers or artists. Susan and Kurt may have exhausted there thoughts on process for now. Or at least until that hoped for study on the effect of new media transmission on the "writers brain." Certainly a welcome respite from politics.

Quoting graz: Susan and Kurt may have exhausted there thoughts on process for now.

You can hear Andersen pontificate about process every week on his radio show. Don't count on his ever saying anything you haven't heard a thousand times before, but his tone, paradoxically, will always communicate his sense that he's steadily conquering new intellectual ground. It's... not my favorite radio show. I'm listening to this diavlog now. Andersen just named Thomas Pynchon as someone who doesn't take his privacy to the "extreme" that Salinger did. What?

omg. nothing more exciting than two people who don't understand the internet trying to explain the internet. avoid this dlog. huge waste of time.

Quoting sugarkang: omg. nothing more exciting than two people who don't understand the internet trying to explain the internet. avoid this dlog. huge waste of time.

Sugarkang!

Quoting Florian: (I am the avatar of franco who has immigrated to another planet after listening to this dialogue. He may never return.)

Writers as brands? If only they were as useful! I suppose you could consider the average journalist or internet hack a kind of brand, replicating itself endlessly. One knows what to expect of them. They are reliable purveyors of news, opinion, gossip, humor etc. Maybe it is my education or some quirk in my former self (franco), but I expect something more of a genuine writer, whether in fiction or non-fiction: Style, voice, mystery, originality. Je ne sais quoi....

It is always interesting to hear writers talk about themselves. They seldom talk about anything else.

@Flo: Talking about themselves? You really think this is distinct to writers? In fact, one might almost define writers as those who merely are comparatively gifted at talking about themselves (or more generally, at articulating their thoughts and impressions). So: Human, please. (Or maybe, in light of your interplanetary capability, this chastisement is unfair?) Anyway, sorry you didn't like this diavlog. I happened to find it quite pleasant to listen to. These were, to me, new, interesting, and likable people, and I guess I always like hearing writers talk about writing. In fact, I found this diavlog wonderful, so much so that it took me

[Continued from] (~41:00) Kurt says he finds it easier to stop reading something when looking at it on screen as opposed to in print. I have to say, while I sort of know the feeling, I also wonder if this can't be explained simply by observing that in the former case, it's much easier to get something else to read. When you're holding a hunk of paper, you probably have to get up from your bed or chair, walk over to a shelf or into the next room or even downstairs or out to the library. In other words, anything less than fairly engaging may be judged merely in terms of (1) normal human laziness and (2) the equally normal sense of "I know there is greener grass on the other side of that fence," and the only question is, "How high is the fence?" That said, a related phenomenon is also undoubtedly at play here: despite the advances in technology, it is still more pleasant to read a sufficiently long piece in a book or magazine than it is to look at it on a screen. Some of this is a matter of taste. When

Quoting JonathanFC: You can hear Andersen pontificate about process every week on his radio show. Don't count on his ever saying anything you haven't heard a thousand times before, but his tone, paradoxically, will always communicate his sense that he's steadily conquering new intellectual ground. It's... not my favorite radio show.

I'm listening to this diavlog now. Andersen just named Thomas Pynchon as someone who doesn't take his privacy to the "extreme" that Salinger did.

What?

A weekly radio show? His wife's instincts are right about him losing his mystery. I frankly was more attuned to Susan, having read and enjoyed The Orchid Thief. Here is an example of a subject they discussed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/books/04delillo.html
Illuminating? Hardly. The book is the thing.

Quoting sugarkang: omg. nothing more exciting than two people who don't understand the internet trying to explain the internet. avoid this dlog. huge waste of time.

If you're reading the comments before watching the diavlog, please be advised that this is very, very far from how I would describe this diavlog. Give it a shot.

Quoting graz: A weekly radio show? His wife's instincts are right about him losing his mystery. I frankly was more attuned to Susan, having read and enjoyed The Orchid Thief.

Here is an example of a subject they discussed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/books/04delillo.html
Illuminating? Hardly. The book is the thing.

I thought the play is the thing, graz, dear.

Quoting bjkeefe: (~43:30) I don't share Susan's self-described habit of not finishing newspaper stories that I like when I'm reading on screen. I would also say that when I read the print edition regularly, I would not bother following the jump unless I really liked a story. (Or had nothing else to read.)

I was particularly struck by this part of her talk. I rarely read in full, rather than skim, a newspaper article anymore. Because I think of the sense of the availability of similar or better versions of the same story - even if I don't search out the alternative. It's as if I fill in the blanks for myself as to what the balance of the story will tell. The same doesn't hold true for magazine articles, blogs or books.

Quoting graz: I was struck by how self-referential it all was.

Not as self-referential as it could have been.

Do we have to grade your comment?

BJ, you have four hours to listen to a diavlog? I'm imagining you sitting on a little couch in an empty room with headphones on, ponderously staring off into space, and desperately slapping your hand away Dr. Strangelove style as it tries to direct the mouse to click the button on your browser that would bring you to Edroso's blog or Doghouse Riley's or the Media Matters blog or Wonkette. I'm not going to listen to this one because I'm too young to give a damn about those ubiquitous and inevitably boring and navel-gazey discussions about how technology is distracting us.

Quoting graz: I was particularly struck by this part of her talk. I rarely read in full, rather than skim, a newspaper article anymore. Because I think of the sense of the availability of similar or better versions of the same story - even if I don't search out the alternative. It's as if I fill in the blanks for myself as to what the balance of the story will tell. The same doesn't hold true for magazine articles, blogs or books.

Yeah. You know what else? It hit upon me years ago that practically every politically-tinged news story has the meat in the first few paragraphs, and the remainder is almost always just "here's how various spokespeople from the two sides spun this thing."

Quoting Ocean: Do we have to grade your comment?

Have to? No. But you are welcome to -- feedback is always encouraged.

Quoting kezboard: BJ, you have four hours to listen to a diavlog?

At this particular point in time, sadly, yes.

I'm imagining you sitting on a little couch in an empty room with headphones on, ponderously staring off into space, and desperately slapping your hand away Dr. Strangelove style as it tries to direct the mouse to click the button on your browser that would bring you to Edroso's blog or Doghouse Riley's or the Media Matters blog or Wonkette.

That was you peeking through the window? ;^)

I'm not going to listen to this one because I'm too young to give a damn about those ubiquitous and inevitably boring and navel-gazey discussions about how technology is distracting us.

If that's all this diavlog was about, I would say the same thing, even at my less than "too young" age. But it really wasn't just about that [added: sorry if my initial comment added to the impression that it was -- I was more moved to dispute than to type out points of agreement], and to the degree that it came close, it wasn't "get off my lawn" stuff. Both Susan and Kurt were ... engagingly two-minded I guess would be one way to put it, about this new age of gee-wizardry. I don't want you to hate me if I badger you into wasting

Quoting Blackadder: Not as self-referential as it could have been.

That was one of those bizarre movies that you think is pretty stupid, but then end up thinking about for the next few days.

Quoting look: That was one of those bizarre movies that you think is pretty stupid, but then end up thinking about for the next few days.

Hmmm. That's a good recommendation, to my ears, at least. Thanks.

Quoting bjkeefe: Hmmm. That's a good recommendation, to my ears, at least. Thanks.

y/w

Just because a writer stops publishing his work and withdraws from fame doesn't make him a recluse. Apparently, he socialized with local people in the community. He went to the store and to local events, etc. And he had relationships with women. Personally, I don't think the life he apparently lived was the life of a recluse. It's only in relation to the career and celebrity he walked away from that the media world somehow gave him that label.
Had he not had that earlier career and fame, he might well have been thought to have lived a "normal" life.

I really dislike reading in front of a PC, but since I got a laptop it's not a problem. I wonder if Me& or BN ever upgraded to the new Kindle. I heard that in some ways they're not as good as the original. I understand that Edith Wharton would write page after page, flowingly, while in bed. As she finished each page she would drop it on the floor for her maid to gather up later.

Quoting look: I understand that Edith Wharton would write page after page, flowingly, while in bed.

As I understand it, Mae West said she did all her best work in bed, too. .

Quoting bjkeefe: As I understand it, Mae West said she did all her best work in bed, too.

.

Careful, B, first it's smilies, and before you know it you'll be forwarding emails about angels and talking dogs.

Quoting bjkeefe: @Flo: Talking about themselves? You really think this is distinct to writers? In fact, one might almost define writers as those who merely are comparatively gifted at talking about themselves (or more generally, at articulating their thoughts and impressions). So: Human, please. (Or maybe, in light of your interplanetary capability, this chastisement is unfair?)

Anyway, sorry you didn't like this diavlog. I happened to find it quite pleasant to listen to. These were, to me, new, interesting, and likable people, and I guess I always like hearing writers talk about writing. In fact, I found this diavlog wonderful, so much so that it took me several hours to listen to it, because I kept having to pause it to reflect.

No, narcissism is universal, as Doctor Sigmund has taught us (but he was just repeating an ancient truth). Because of my interplanetary voyages through "strange seas of thought," I am less inclined to think that the narcissism of writers, unless they are exceptionally gifted and well-read, is any more interesting than the narcissism of Monsieur tout le monde. Better expressed no doubt, but I expect writers to mirror reality while mirroring their souls. However, I didn't mean to belittle the two writers in this diavlog. And thanks for your unbelievably detailed commentary. The internet seems

Quoting bjkeefe: Have to? No. But you are welcome to -- feedback is always encouraged.

I was initially tempted to, but wisdom prevailed and I refrained. Thoughtful and comprehensive as far as I can tell. However, I didn't listen to the whole diavlog so, I wasn't qualified to grade your comment.

Quoting look: Careful, B, first it's smilies, and before you know it you'll be forwarding emails about angels and talking dogs.

You're at least half right, almost.

Quoting Florian: No, narcissism is universal, as Doctor Sigmund has taught us (but he was just repeating an ancient truth). Because of my interplanetary voyages through "strange seas of thought," I am less inclined to think that the narcissism of writers, unless they are exceptionally gifted and well-read, is any more interesting than the narcissism of Monsieur tout le monde.

Hmmm. Well, I probably agree with you 90-some percent, in that most people, and in particular, most people talking about themselves, are not of overwhelming interest to me. Still, I have my whole life been amazed on a regular basis at how fascinating the results can sometimes be when I ask, "So, what's your story?"

Better expressed no doubt, but I expect writers to mirror reality while mirroring their souls.

That is nice when that happens, for sure. Someone once said most people talk about other people, good people talk about events, and extraordinary people talk about ideas, and that's as true a bumper sticker as I've ever heard. But I guess I don't demand that a writer mirror a larger reality than his or her own soul in order for me potentially to enjoy hearing from or reading that writer. It ain't whatcha say, it's how

Quoting bjkeefe: You're at least half right, almost.

Oh, god.

Quoting Florian: (I am the avatar of franco who has immigrated to another planet after listening to this dialogue. He may never return.)

Writers as brands? If only they were as useful! I suppose you could consider the average journalist or internet hack a kind of brand, replicating itself endlessly. One knows what to expect of them. They are reliable purveyors of news, opinion, gossip, humor etc. Maybe it is my education or some quirk in my former self (franco), but I expect something more of a genuine writer, whether in fiction or non-fiction: Style, voice, mystery, originality. Je ne sais quoi....

It is always interesting to hear writers talk about themselves. They seldom talk about anything else.

O Franco, Franco! wherefore art thou Franco? Who are your favorite authors? Are there any on the current scene you admire?

Quoting look: Oh, god.

I remind you, Mr. Madison, that "pup" spelled backwards is still "pup." But "dog?" I suggest you think about THAT.

Quoting look: O Franco, Franco! wherefore art thou Franco?

Who are your favorite authors? Are there any on the current scene you admire?

I read little fiction, American or other. Franco is no longer communicating with me, so I am unsure of his tastes. Besides, he is a bit of snob. A while ago I read The Tunnel by William Gass and Delillo's Underworld...both in the tradition of the great never to be written (and probably never to be read) American novel. Moby Dick to the nth degree. I have no idea what younger American writers are up to. Among contemporary British writers I enjoy Ian McEwan.

Quoting sugarkang: omg. nothing more exciting than two people who don't understand the internet trying to explain the internet. avoid this dlog. huge waste of time.

you're not even close. one of the more interesting conversations i've listened to here in a while.

Quoting sugarkang: omg. nothing more exciting than two people who don't understand the internet trying to explain the internet. avoid this dlog. huge waste of time.

Uncanny. Whenever I finish an article in the Newyorker I am struck by quite how many words it took to cover the subject. No surprise then that these people talk the way they write. Maybe Andersen's trick of not reading the whole thing is a survival technique for reading articles by the so afflicted.

Quoting bjkeefe: Oh, yeah, certainly. First, there are all these people bemoaning the N&E antics of others. ;^) And then there are others, like me, who from time to time dip into the fire hose of material being posted online and find some part of it interesting, and in a few cases, even fascinating. Even if in percentage terms almost all of it is thoroughly not interesting to me, the remainder is still large in absolute numbers, compared to what I had a chance to be exposed to before the late 1990s.

Wise comments on the Age of Connectivity. I (speaking for Franco) am always amazed by the amount of stuff, both relevant and outrageous, that you manage to dig up on the web. I spend relatively little time reading bloggers and commentators. There is only so much time in a day, and in a lifetime, to spend on ephemera.

Quoting Florian: Wise comments on the Age of Connectivity.

I (speaking for Franco) am always amazed by the amount of stuff, both relevant and outrageous, that you manage to dig up on the web. I spend relatively little time reading bloggers and commentators. There is only so much time in a day, and in a lifetime, to spend on ephemera.

Yes, that's probably true, and of course a lot of this is just a matter of taste, but I will note that your statement skips over the question of what ephemera is. Seems to me someone's fleeting moment can stay lodged in another person's memory for life, for one thing. For another, one might be interested in observing something dynamic, evolving, call it what you will, and will do so by a series of discrete samplings, none considered particularly noteworthy in and of itself, and certainly not lasting, but somehow adding up to something that is. Also, I have no problem with spending time each day just purely being made to laugh, even if tomorrow I don't remember why. And finally, I guess in many ways, I view myself as ephemeral, so it does not particularly matter to me that I am not always concentrating on the timeless. Hey everybody, let's

Quoting bjkeefe: I remind you, Mr. Madison, that "pup" spelled backwards is still "pup." But "dog?" I suggest you think about THAT.

B, be a doll and find Nate's Oscar/Felix vid. I tried, but couldn't find it.

Quoting Florian: I read little fiction, American or other. Franco is no longer communicating with me, so I am unsure of his tastes. Besides, he is a bit of snob.

A while ago I read The Tunnel by William Gass and Delillo's Underworld...both in the tradition of the great never to be written (and probably never to be read) American novel. Moby Dick to the nth degree. I have no idea what younger American writers are up to. Among contemporary British writers I enjoy Ian McEwan.

Thanks. I read the first page of Moby Dick and was amazed at how accessible it seemed. I want to read it, but it seems such a daunting committment. Maybe you could lead us in a book discussion? Or perhaps one on Hannah Arendt's book comparing the French Revolution to the American?

Quoting Florian: I (speaking for Franco)

Do or not do, there is no try.

Quoting bjkeefe: Also, I have no problem with spending time each day just purely being made to laugh, even if tomorrow I don't remember why.

And finally, I guess in many ways, I view myself as ephemeral, so it does not particularly matter to me that I am not always concentrating on the timeless.

Hey everybody, let's have some fun
You only live for once
And when you're dead you're done
So let the good times roll

And finally, I guess in many ways, I view myself as ephemeral, so it does not particularly matter to me that I am not always concentrating on the timeless..

Hey everybody, let's have some fun
You only live for once
And when you're dead you're done
So let the good times roll[/i]

as the man sang.

Carpe diem is a philosophy for virgins and rock bands. Between the ephemeral and the timeless there is room for all kinds of things unknown to virgins and rock bands. Robert Herrick "To the Virgins" Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying:
And this same flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying. The glorious lamp of heaven, the sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he's to setting. That

Quoting look: Thanks. I read the first page of Moby Dick and was amazed at how accessible it seemed. I want to read it, but it seems such a daunting committment. Maybe you could lead us in a book discussion? Or perhaps one on Hannah Arendt's book comparing the French Revolution to the American?

That would be fun, but I wonder how many serious readers there are in this forum. Arendt might be daunting to those uninitiated to a certain German heaviness.

Quoting look: B, be a doll and find Nate's Oscar/Felix vid. I tried, but couldn't find it.

Hmmm ... that was directed to be taken down due to some copyright nonsense, wasn't it? I sure do wish I had grabbed a copy of it, because I've never seen it anywhere else. Best bet is probably to send Nate a PM. Or hope someone who knows more about searching for video than I do sees your post. Sorry I don't have more to offer.

Quoting Florian: That would be fun, but I wonder how many serious readers there are in this forum. Arendt might be daunting to those uninitiated to a certain German heaviness.

Yes, I don't even know if I could handle her. Briefly, how do you compare them? I realize it may be too tedious a subject for now, so perhaps another time...

Quoting bjkeefe: Hmmm ... that was directed to be taken down due to some copyright nonsense, wasn't it? I sure do wish I had grabbed a copy of it, because I've never seen it anywhere else.

Best bet is probably to send Nate a PM. Or hope someone who knows more about searching for video than I do sees your post. Sorry I don't have more to offer.

Yes, good idea.

Dum loquimur invida aetas fugerit.

Quoting Florian: That would be fun, but I wonder how many serious readers there are in this forum. Arendt might be daunting to those uninitiated to a certain German heaviness.

Arendt's easy. How about "The Phenomenology of Spirit?"

Quoting bjkeefe: Dum loquimur invida aetas fugerit.

You took the words right out of Horace's mouth. So true: while we're speaking invidious time is fleeing. But even truer: Primum vivere, deinde philosophari.

Quoting Florian: I read little fiction, American or other. Franco is no longer communicating with me, so I am unsure of his tastes. Besides, he is a bit of snob.

A while ago I read The Tunnel by William Gass and Delillo's Underworld...both in the tradition of the great never to be written (and probably never to be read) American novel. Moby Dick to the nth degree. I have no idea what younger American writers are up to. Among contemporary British writers I enjoy Ian McEwan.

No way is this Franco! I can't imagine someone as well-educated and intelligent as he reading as middlebrow a writer as Ian McEwan...(although The Child In Time, his magnum opus, is really quite good.) Contemporary British writers? - David Lodge is more entertaining, more interesting, and, altogether - in his offbeat way - more serious than McEwan.

Quoting claymisher: Arendt's easy. How about "The Phenomenology of Spirit?"

Looking at the wiki page it looks fascinating, but beyond my level of understanding of philosophy, which is near nil. Thanks anyway.

Atonement (the book) was amazing!! And Saturday was pretty great too, imo. Nikki's the real snob here.

Quoting look: I really dislike reading in front of a PC, but since I got a laptop it's not a problem. I wonder if Me& or BN ever upgraded to the new Kindle. I heard that in some ways they're not as good as the original.

I understand that Edith Wharton would write page after page, flowingly, while in bed. As she finished each page she would drop it on the floor for her maid to gather up later.

I did not upgrade. Sometimes I think about it, but I don't see much added value. I love my ugly old early adopter version with the cardboard and tape that I use to prevent myself from hitting the next page button inadvertently. I'm more interested in a Kindle software upgrade than a hardware upgrade. Ebooks are still very poor for non-fiction reading that involves references and footnotes. Amazon needs to figure out how to link to the references/footnotes from the text and vice versa, which is easily done in a regular book; impossible on a Kindle AFAIK. Was in barnes and noble the other night and looked at their ebook the Nook. Looked like the new Kindle. Was not very compelling to me, but the

Quoting claymisher: Arendt's easy. How about "The Phenomenology of Spirit?"

I ploughed through the Phenomenology once, with the help of a French translation and two French commentaries. But I didn't become God as Hegel promised.

Quoting nikkibong: No way is this Franco! I can't imagine someone as well-educated and intelligent as he reading as middlebrow a writer as Ian McEwan...(although The Child In Time, his magnum opus, is really quite good.)

Contemporary British writers? - David Lodge is more entertaining, more interesting, and, altogether - in his offbeat way - more serious than McEwan.

Would that America had such good middlebrow writers. But you're right, Franco would tut tut me.

This pair is remarkably non-articulate for being professional writers. Maybe there's Something... Different about this computer screen that causes their Fibberty-Gibberty-Ness

I agree with bjkeefe that this is a very pleasant listen. While there is nothing particularly ground-breaking here, there are a lot of things that were alluded to (structure of reading/writing, for example) that are worthwhile thinking about. I hope Bob would bring more of people working in particular areas (writers, scientists, philosophers, public officials, rights organizers) and give them a pleasant platform where they could (somewhat freely) express their ideas even when they don't have a book to promote...

Quoting Me&theboys: I did not upgrade. Sometimes I think about it, but I don't see much added value. I love my ugly old early adopter version with the cardboard and tape that I use to prevent myself from hitting the next page button inadvertently. I'm more interested in a Kindle software upgrade than a hardware upgrade. Ebooks are still very poor for non-fiction reading that involves references and footnotes. Amazon needs to figure out how to link to the references/footnotes from the text and vice versa, which is easily done in a regular book; impossible on a Kindle AFAIK. Was in barnes and noble the other night and looked at their ebook the Nook. Looked like the new Kindle. Was not very compelling to me, but the cases they have are MUCH better than the Kindle cases. That alone almost convinced me to switch. A hot pink pleather envelope case will get me every time.

I love paper books and buy them as if money grows on trees because I feel compelled to own them, but nothing beats the Kindle if you are a little bit ADD about reading material and like to have something at your fingertips